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Cycling Forum / General / Technical / July 2007non-campagnolo TDF winners
Hi everyone, as the wikipedia website says : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campagnolo Most of TDF winners were equipped in campagnolo. I`m just wondering what were the other winners equipped with, especially in 70`s or 80`s. Simplex, Suntour, Shimano any suggestions ? I`ve heard that peugeot px-10 was the "winner" in TDF few times. Was it equipped in french components (Mafac, Stronglight, Simplex) ? regards Mariusz > Hi everyone, > as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > regards > Mariusz Mavic in 1989 with ADR/Bottrechia and Lemond. Think Suntour has won once. If you ignore Lance, shimano has never been on a sponsored winner. (Helmets ON, flac jacket BUCKLED). Interesting but with a van full of new parts and a legion of wrenches, what these guys ride really means little. I think what is MORE important is the bike frame, heart of the bicycle, not the bits strapped onto said frame. Saddles and pedals more important also, or anywhere else the rider 'touches' the bike, handlebars..............I think Pinarello has been 'under' a bunch of winners(Indurain, Ullrich, Riis). On Jul 17, 8:13 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > the bike, handlebars..............I think Pinarello has been 'under' a > bunch of winners(Indurain, Ullrich, Riis). Well, at least Pinarello decals were under a bunch of winners. Ullrich in particular was known for hardly using anything made by his actual sponsors. While the carbon fiber era has made re-badging particularly difficult, a lot of guys are still riding Walser TT bikes according to cyclingnews: http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/tech/?id=/tech/2007/features/tour_te ch_607 > On Jul 17, 8:13 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <pe...@vecchios.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/tech/?id=/tech/2007/features/tour_ > tech_607 This 2004 example of rebadging is particularly pertinent: http://campyonly.com/images/rumors/2004/t-m1.jpg T-Mobile team bike with Shimano stickers and obvious Record carbon shifters. http://campyonly.com/rumors_2004.html  SignatureRyan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos > Hi everyone, > as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > regards > Mariusz Lance rode Shimano. During the 70 until the late 80s everyone rode campagnolo. 7-11 rode shimano equipped eddie mercx frames. there may have been some riders with mavic groups but I don't remember. > Hi everyone, > as the wikipedia website says : > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campagnolo > > Most of TDF winners were equipped in campagnolo. ??? 94 th Tour, only 27 winners on Campy Signature/Marten info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl >> Hi everyone, >> as the wikipedia website says : >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campagnolo >> Most of TDF winners were equipped in campagnolo. > ??? > 94 th Tour, only 27 winners on Campy If I recall, the claim is "more Campagnolo than any other single brand", not "more Campagnolo than all others combined" SignatureAndrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 > Hi everyone, > as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I`ve heard that peugeot px-10 was the "winner" in TDF few times. Was > it equipped in french components (Mafac, Stronglight, Simplex) ? Campagnolo was the dominant component group for decades, with only occasional victories by bikes equipped with other components. Since 1960 it's been very predominantly Campy. This is mostly due to Campy being used by almost every pro team and not necessarily because their stuff was "faster." Bernard Thevenet won in 1975 or 76 on a mix of Simplex and Stronglight. Greg Lemond won his comeback tour in 1989 on Mavic IIRC, I don't remember what he used in 1986 or 1990. Certainly from 1991-1998 all the winners used Campy, then Lance won his seven Tours on Shimano. No one ever won the Tour on Sun Tour. > In article <1184663935.893100.83...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Greg Lemond won his comeback tour in 1989 on Mavic IIRC, I don't > remember what he used in 1986 or 1990. La Vie Claire and Team 'Z', both Campagnolo. Certainly from 1991-1998 all the > winners used Campy, then Lance won his seven Tours on Shimano. No one > ever won the Tour on Sun Tour. > Hi everyone, > as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I`ve heard that peugeot px-10 was the "winner" in TDF few times. Was > it equipped in french components (Mafac, Stronglight, Simplex) ? Jacques Anquetil on Huret Roger Pingeon on Simplex (Eddy was a neo-pro for his Peugeot team that year, '67, on Simplex) The Merckx years are Campagnolo of course Luis Ocana on Campagnolo too Thevenet on Simplex-Spidel PouPou never won (sigh) SignatureAndrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 > PouPou never won (sigh) Alas that we never heard the dulcet voice of Phil Ligget hyperbolize: "The little man with the big heart, PouPou is dropping down the mountain like a stone." "And PouPou negotiates the slippery curves." "Oh goodness me, PouPou has hit the floor!" Etc. Must be time for the annual list of Liggetisms. >> PouPou never won (sigh) > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Must be time for the annual list of Liggetisms. What a missed opportunity! "The spectators are crowding awfully close here...oh my! Pou Pou hit the fan! Oh, he really hit the fan on that one!" SignatureLuigi de Guzman http://ouij.livejournal.com >Hi everyone, >as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >regards >Mariusz Dear Marius, Berto's "Dancing Chain" lists these Tour de France winners, bikes, and derailleurs, with additions to 2006: 40 Campagnolo 29 forbidden by tour rules 10 Simplex 7 Shimano 3 Huret 2 Super Champion 1 Vittoria Marghetta 1 Mavic Riders switched bikes and derailleurs from year to year, and--gasp!--may have used re-badged equipment. Derailleurs were forbidden as tools of the devil until 1937. From 1930 to 1939, everyone rode the same generic bicycle. The 1946 "Tour" was a 5-day affair, won with Campagnolo, but it's fair to count that year, since the 1947 "Tour" was rigged (the Italians Coppi and Bartali were not allowed to enter in order to insure a French victory--Bartali won the next year with Campagnolo). It is unlikely that the derailleur or the bicycle are the key factors in winning the Tour de France. The detailed list follows. Cheers, Carl Fogel 1903 garin la fracaise forbidden 01 1904 croent cycles j.c. forbidden 02 1905 trousseller peugeout forbidden 03 1906 pottier peugeout forbidden 04 1907 petite-breteon peugeout forbidden 05 1908 petite-breteon peugeout forbidden 06 1909 faber alcyon forbidden 07 1910 lapize alcyon forbidden 08 1911 garrigou alcyon forbidden 09 1912 defraye alcyon forbidden 10 1913 thys peugeot forbidden 11 1914 thys peugeot forbidden 12 1915 no tour x x 1916 no tour x x 1917 no tour x x 1918 no tour x x 1919 lambot la sportive forbidden 13 1920 thys la sportive forbidden 14 1921 lambot peugeot forbidden 15 1922 pelisier automoto forbidden 16 1923 bottechia automoto forbidden 17 1924 bottechia automoto forbidden 18 1925 buysse automoto forbidden 19 1925 frantz alcyon forbidden 20 1928 frantz alcyon forbidden 21 1929 dewaele alcyon forbidden 22 1930 leduq generic forbidden 23 1931 magne generic forbidden 24 1932 leduq generic forbidden 25 1933 speicher generic forbidden 26 1934 magne generic forbidden 27 1935 r. maes generic forbidden 28 1936 s. maes generic forbidden 29 1937 lapeble generic super champion 01 1938 bartali generic vittoria marghetta 01 1939 s. maes generic super champion 02 1940 no tour x x 1941 no tour x x 1942 no tour x x 1943 no tour x x 1944 no tour x x 1945 no tour x x 1946*lazarides france sport campagnolo 01 * 5-day pseudo-tour 1947*robic genial-lucifer simplex 01 *coppi and bartali not allowed 1948 bartali legano campagnolo 02 1949 coppi bianchi simplex 02 1950 kubler frejus simplex 03 1951 koblet la perle campagnolo 03 1952 coppi bianchi campagnolo 04 1953 bobet stella huret 01 1954 bobet stella huret 02 1955 bobet louison-bobet mercier-huret 03 1956 walkowiak geminiani campagnolo 05 1957 anquetil heylett simplex 04 1958 gaul learco-guerra campagnolo 06 1959 bahamontes coppi campagnolo 07 1960 nencini no brand campagnolo 08 1961 anquetil heylett simplex 05 1961 anquetil heylett simplex 06 1963 anquetil gitane campagnolo 09 1964 anquetil gitane campagnolo 10 1965 gimondi magni campagnolo 11 1966 aimar geminiani campagnolo 12 1967 pingeon peugeot simplex 07 1968 janssen lejeune campagnolo 13 1969 merckx merckx-kessels campagnolo 14 1970 merckx merckx-kessels campagnolo 15 1971 merckx merckx-kessels campagnolo 16 1972 merckx merckx-kessels campagnolo 17 1973 ocana motobecane campagnolo 18 1974 merckx merckx-kessels campagnolo 19 1975 thevenet peugeot simplex 08 1976 van impe gitane campagnolo 20 1977 thevenet peugeot simplex 09 1978 hinault gitane campagnolo 21 1979 hinault gitane campagnolo 22 1980 zoetemelk gitane campagnolo 23 1981 hinault gitane campagnolo 24 1982 hinault gitane campagnolo 25 1983 fignon gitane simplex 10 1984 fignon gitane campagnolo 26 1985 hinault hinault campagnolo 27 1986 lemond look-hinault campagnolo 28 1987 roche battglin campagnolo 29 1988 delgado pinarello campagnolo 30 1989 lemond bottechia mavic 01 1990 lemond lemond campagnolo 31 1991 indurain tvt campagnolo 32 1992 indurain pinarello campagnolo 33 1993 indurain pinarello campagnolo 34 1994 indurain pinarello campagnolo 35 1995 indurain pinarello campagnolo 36 1996 riis pinarello campagnolo 37 1997 ullrich pinarello campagnolo 38 1998 pantani bianchi campagnolo 39 1999 armstrong trek shimano 01 2000 armstrong trek shimano 02 2001 armstrong trek shimano 03 2002 armstrong trek shimano 04 2003 armstrong trek shimano 05 2004 armstrong trek shimano 06 2005 armstrong trek shimano 07 2006 landis bmc campagnolo 40 > >Hi everyone, > >as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 151 lines] > 2005 armstrong trek shimano 07 > 2006 landis bmc campagnolo 40 Thanks Carl, you saved me the work of listing those. Great book BTW. SignatureChas. verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com (Drop spamski to E-mail me) On Jul 17, 12:03 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote, in small part: > 2006 landis bmc campagnolo 40 I don't think that has been determined yet. Or is it in your mind? Regards, D'ohBoy > On Jul 17, 12:03 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote, in small part: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > D'ohBoy What do you think is in doubt? That Landis won the 2006 Tour de France, or that Campagnolo components were ridden by the 2006 Tour de France winner? As I stated in a previous post: "and 2006 is still in doubt but Landis and Pereiro (2nd) both used Campagnolo." Whether Landis holds the victory or whether its awarded to Pereiro son't change the fact that Campagnolo was used by the 2006 Tour de France winner. Unless you are insinuating that both 1st and 2nd will be disqualified and Shimano using Kloden will be awarded the 2006 victory. > > On Jul 17, 12:03 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote, in small part: > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > be disqualified and Shimano using Kloden will be awarded the 2006 > victory. Hi, Russell - Not insinuating anything. Firstly, I was responding to Carl's listing of TdF winners (including Floyd in '06). Secondly, I was actually wondering if there was a new development in the case I was unaware of. Thirdly, I was wondering ("Or is it in your mind?") if Carl was convinced that Floyd would be vindicated. I really wasn't addressing you, or the use of Campy by the eventually selected TdF winner in '06 at all. Regards, D'ohBoy On 17 Lip, 19:03, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote: > Dear Marius, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 1 Vittoria Marghetta > 1 Mavic Thanks for such an interesting informations. By the way what was "vittoria marghetta 01" ? Does anybody have any information about it ? /Mariusz >On 17 Lip, 19:03, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >/Mariusz Dear Marius, I added the "01" to tally how many times each derailleur appeared in the list compiled from Berto's tables. "Vittoria Marghetta" is probably just a misspelling in the list for "Vittoria Margherita," which appears elsewhere in "The Dancing Chain": "Gino Bartali's decisive victory in the 1938 Tour de France stunned the readers of the French magazine 'Miroir des Sports.' They protested that his crushing victory resulted from the Italian team's use of Vittoria derailleurs, while the other teams were required to use Super Champions." Here's the whole page, with a diagram, more details, and a picture of Bartali using his secret weapon on the cover of the whiny French magazine: http://i12.tinypic.com/6f4mi2s.jpg Note the lack of gloves, the goggles for the dusty roads, the spare tubular carried as a bandolier, and the cut-down front fender on Bartali's bike. Cheers, Carl Fogel > On 17 Lip, 19:03, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote: >> Berto's "Dancing Chain" lists these Tour de France winners, bikes, and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> 1 Vittoria Marghetta >> 1 Mavic > Thanks for such an interesting informations. > By the way what was "vittoria marghetta 01" ? > Does anybody have any information about it ? I believe that's an abbreviation for the Vittoria Margherita (?) which is a front 2-change slider with a simple tensioner. something much like this, if it's not this very one: http://www.yellowjersey.org/eroica.html SignatureAndrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 On 17 Lip, 19:03, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote: > >Hi everyone, > >as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Carl Fogel Interesting fact : no one ever won TDF on COLNAGO ! > On 17 Lip, 19:03, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Interesting fact : no one ever won TDF on COLNAGO ! Not this year either- On Jul 17, 11:03 am, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote: > >Hi everyone, > >as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 151 lines] > 2005 armstrong trek shimano 07 > 2006 landis bmc campagnolo 40 Thanks for that and did ya hear Bobke yesterday, in the 'top 5 most important tour gadgets' segment say that the rear derailleur was invented by Tullio?..Sorry Bobke, not so. I like Roll's participation a LOT. He brings some humor and 'blend' to this spectacle that just isn't there with the others...but get yer facts striaght. [snip list of Tour derailleurs] >Thanks for that and did ya hear Bobke yesterday, in the 'top 5 most >important tour gadgets' segment say that the rear derailleur was >invented by Tullio?..Sorry Bobke, not so. I like Roll's participation >a LOT. He brings some humor and 'blend' to this spectacle that just >isn't there with the others...but get yer facts striaght. Dear Peter, "In 1895, Frenchman Jean Loubeyre patented a device for derailing the chain from one sprocket to antoher. He called his gear-changer the Polyceler (Multi-speed). It had a rod-operated fork to push the chain sideways from one fixed sprocket to another. Two spring arms, one above the chainstay, the other below it, pushed on the chain. The arms took up slack when the chain was on the smaller sprocket. A bicycle equipped with a Polyceler was shown in the 1896 catalog of the Compagnie Generale des Cycles. Velocio described this invention in his famous review of gear-change systems in Le Cycliste in 1919." --"The First Derailleurs" in Berto's "The Dancing Chain" Here's what Berto considers the first derailleur, on a sturdy 40-spoke cross-4 rear with dainty mini-toeclips: http://i15.tinypic.com/6h6wdi8.jpg Poseurs soon began demanding more than two rear sprockets, leading to what fixed-gear enthusiasts call our modern nightmare. The long control rod under the seat was typical of many early derailleur designs, all of which were forbidden on the Tour de France until 1937. Cheers, Carl Fogel > Hi everyone, > as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > regards > Mariusz http://www.campyonly.com/tourvictory.html For some reason they leave out 75 and 77 and 1999-2005 is well known and 2006 is still in doubt but Landis and Pereiro (2nd) both used Campagnolo. >http://www.campyonly.com/tourvictory.html > >For some reason they leave out 75 and 77 and 1999-2005 is well known >and 2006 is still in doubt but Landis and Pereiro (2nd) both used >Campagnolo. They leave out '75 and '77 because the Super LJ's beat them. After '77, the Campy guys were using Simplex Retro shifters and they won again. (Yeah, that may be a troll :-) > On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 05:30:45 -0700, "russellseat...@yahoo.com" > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > They leave out '75 and '77 because the Super LJ's beat them. Then why would they show the 1999-2002 period if they are so concerned about someone besides Campagnolo winning? Your explanation does not work given the other facts shown. > After '77, the Campy guys were using Simplex Retro shifters and they > won again. > > (Yeah, that may be a troll :-) >> >For some reason they leave out 75 and 77 and 1999-2005 is well known >> >and 2006 is still in doubt but Landis and Pereiro (2nd) both used [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >about someone besides Campagnolo winning? Your explanation does not >work given the other facts shown. Pardon, I forgot this is the USEnet and every response, even a humorous one, has to "put the anal in analyze" :-) FWIW - the only other possibility (besides intentional omission) is that they didn't know. Seems unlikely. 1975 & 1977 - Bernard Thevenet on Simplex, Stronglight & Mafac > Hi everyone, > as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > regards > Mariusz > Hi everyone, > as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > regards > Mariusz New Tour Trivia Contest: Who has won a jersey in the TDF (not just yellow) on a rebranded bike? > New Tour Trivia Contest: > > Who has won a jersey in the TDF (not just yellow) on a rebranded bike? Guess I'll take a stab at it. Bernard Hinault on a Cycles Gitane frame actually made by Vitus, but had the name Gitane. -tom > > New Tour Trivia Contest: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > had the name Gitane. > -tom I was thinking of Richard Virenque (mountains jersey) on a Peugeot branded Litespeed. >New Tour Trivia Contest: > >Who has won a jersey in the TDF (not just yellow) on a rebranded bike? I dunno Ed, but how's Topo Gigio these days? In article <1184939747.733829.53370@m3g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > > Hi everyone, > > as the wikipedia website says : [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Who has won a jersey in the TDF (not just yellow) on a rebranded bike? Everybody. SignatureMichael Press |
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